interesting setup!

i looked at your vid about the cap voltage anomaly

it seems to me that at the moments when you read out "300V" the DVM reading is instantaneously ONE THOUSAND and something - is that possible on that range?

could someone else take a look at the vid - maybe in slomo? - it certainly looks to me like there is a leading 1 in the left-hand 4th digit for the instant you say '300'

thanks NerzhDishual & Kator for linking me in to this phenomenon - i think its probably related to the effect which NerzhDishual and i (and lately others, like Introvertebrate on YT, too) have observed when switching charge between capacitors

conventional ElectroDynamics indicates that theoretically 50% of the supply energy in charging a capacitor to a given amount should be dissipated - as heat or radiation - in order to do the work of charging the cap

however, it seems to be accepted that some of this loss can be reduced by introducing an inductive element into the charging path - so what is this saying - that it is now possible to do the same work with less energy?!?

imagine rolling a stone up a hill - you do work to get the stone up the hill and when it's at the top it also has some potential energy of its own, which can be released by dropping or rolling the stone off the hill

that's the original conventional story

now someone comes along and says "push the stone up the hill, a few steps at a time and using this spring - the stone will still have the same potential energy but you won't have to do so much work to get it to the top"

doesn't sound likely, does it? but that is exactly what's happening with these caps which we're charging up by switching current into it thro' a coil

with careful attention to adding a load into the charge path, it's possible to make use of the charging energy AND use the potential energy which gets stored in the cap too - this brings you to around unity (minus usual I^2 x R losses)

however, we've found that something funky is going on in the switched charge transfer process which appears to be giving more charge out than in - so now you can have around unity PLUS significant gain = OVERunity

i've noted this informally on a dedicated website
http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc and also started a thread (as referenced by Kator above - for which thanks)
 

i started out experimenting with switched charge to caps because H. Aspden predicted that it may be possible to get more energy out of a charged cap than is supplied, due to a 'spin inertia' effect of the vacuum medium/'aether'/energetic plenum - the fundamental energy 'lattice' which he and many others (including in the past, Maxwell & Einstein) believe permeates all space - when subject to a pulsed polarisation

at first it seemed highly unlikely to me, but i've had to admit that this effect is real - and the best explanation conventional science can offer is 'measurement error'!

all the best
sandy

PS - i've just written this in response to Kator & NerzhDishual's suggestion that there might be some link between the effect you asked for input on and the results which several of us have been getting with switched charge experiments - in the meantime i see you've looked at my results whilst i've been writing this post - and unfortunately you don't seem interested - c'est la vie ;o(

Hi Sandy,

Thanks for looking at this tread. First thing I did for you or anyone interested is upload the Capacitor Voltage Spikes test video on Megaupload: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RP6DLZV3

Please download it from there since the quality will be about twice as good to what you can see on YouTube.

If your computer won't play it, you will need to install Cole Media Codec Pack or some Codec pack like that.

You will be able to see the voltage meter clearly with this video. The meter is set to the highest scale which is 600 volts. I think the most it can display is 999 (3 digits) but it can also display a minus next to the 3 digits, so -999. I don't think it has more digits than that.

I was also thinking that the relay contacts could be part of the effect. I was thinking that since I used that relay for a while now that it could of formed some kind of oxidization on the surface of the contacts that could cause a kind of resistance but the kind that is good. I can take the relay apart now since I fried it last night when doing tests at high pulse rates which surprised me. I could crank that relay up to 30hz. The spark was so loud and powerfull that I had to use my construction ear muffs. I was also trying to measure the energy consumed at that frequency but had no luck. My amp meter was showing negative. I don't think that is real because I have had this many time before. I'll try other things and let you know if I find anything more.

Please don't think that I'm not interested in your work! we just have a different style. I am interested in anything that can help mankind out of the walls we have created.

Luc

hi Luc

[i've just seen we've cross-posted again   - yeah, no probs about the thread results - i'm a hands-on guy too actually - the lack of pictures on the thread is mostly because a photo of a capacitor in a plugboard charging to a few volts is not the most interesting image in the world! - my website with the collected info has scope traces of the input, switched & output voltages & circuit diagrams - the calcs are necessary to show that the output energy converted by the circuit is 120% of the energy supplied by the input cap]

thanks for the additional vid at higher quality - it's in the process of downloading now (8 mins left)

while it's downloading, i think i have time to say that if your circuit is:-

AC -> Full-Wave Recitfier -> Relay -> Coil -> Capacitor (or some variant of that connection)

then i think the high voltage spikes could be caused mostly by coil flyback voltage when the relay cuts out each time - you'd get a variety of max voltages shown because the input to the coil-cap arrangement is not pure DC - it's varying repetitively between 0 & the peak of the rectified 120V AC (ie. 168V - as shown by your DVM)

when you manually switch the relay you'll sometimes catch the input waveform at high enough input value to give you larger readings (and very rarely, you'll catch it on or close to the 0V point - in which case the output will be 0V or close, too)

at the moment i'm thinking that what you're seeing is mostly the voltage magnification effect caused by switching-off current thro' the coil - IF the circuit is just the elemnts i mentioned above

you could try a slight mod which would help confirm this:
connect a second capacitor after the diode bridge rectifier but before the relay - that way the input voltage would be constant (around 168V) and then you should see that your output max voltages become more regular

of course, if the relay is only manually switched on-off, then you are varying the on-time of the coil-charging, and with the large coil you have this could give you different amounts of energy in the coil each time - leading to different max voltage spikes at flyback

so a further mod you could make to get the input energy even more regular, would be to trigger the relay from a one-shot pulse circuit (monostable) which would always switch the relay on for the same period regardless of how long you held it's input in the 'on' state

hope this helps

[the vid download has failed, so i'm restarting.... if i get a chance to view it before i have to leave for work i'll reply soon - otherwise i'll have to get back to you tonight (UK time)]

[late edit: - download just completed & only playing as audio content with my current codecs - i'll try & download a suitable codec tonight when i get back & have a look in better detail.

you say the max rvalue on that DVM range setting is 999V, so maybe the extra digit i'm seeing is the '-' sign - could be a transient overload conditon, so the max voltage could still be going greater than 1000V - i'll get a better look later hopefully.

if you're intending to switch the cap in the same way (ie thro a relay) & manually, i'd recommend those two mods i mentioned above to make the operation more repeatable - and ensure you're getting the max voltage on the cap each time - there are other ways to switch at peak AC input but those mentioned are pretty easy to implement]

all the best
sandy

hi Luc

...gotta go - but just managed to capture this off the original vid - can't see a decimal point on the display, but your earlier static 168V reading is using 3 digits so that's why i'm thinking this is over 1000V (or an overload - which means it's higher than 600 - possibly higher than 999)

i'll get a new codec tonight & look at the higher-res vid

all the best
sandy

It would helpful if you could make a simple hand-drawing of the complete circuit so that we are not left speculating on this effect. It is important to knwo the exact figures of your leading coil ( L in Henry ), the max switch-amperage and volatage of the relais, values of the HV-Diodes and inductance of the primary ingnition-coil.

Also any digital-meter fails in showing the exact values while measuring pulse-modes. Although I accept your reluctance to get a bit more "scientific" I can assure you that it is very important to learn the minimum of methods known in electronics. I myself have lost a lage amount of time in "barking at the wrong tree" - so to say.

I agree on what nul-point was saying about your observation.

Input current is measured best be detecting the voltage-drop across a low-value resistor ( 1 Ohm, 25 Watt ) either with a true RMS meter in AC-mode before the rectifier or in DC-mode after the rectifier.

The link fo yours above does not work today, its says the server lead the enquiery around somewhere so it can never be answered

Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.

Kator

...managed to get a schematic of the suggestions together in my lunch-break...

as an alternative to flyback diode protection across the inductor to reduce contact wear on the relay, you could try placing one or more HV diodes D2 (enough to cope with the required peak flyback voltage) as shown in the schematic

the supply end of the coil pulses negative each switch-off and so a diode polarised as shown will enable the flyback energy to flow thro' the coil, adding into the cap with the charge you've just switched in

looking at the diode/coil junction voltage on a scope will show there is only a minimal voltage spike being captured - this is true: the diode limits the spike to its forward voltage - BUT the current is NOT limited - the flyback energy does get transferred

...just one of the 'practical' things i learned from my switched charge experiments

the supply filter/'smoothing' cap C1 may need some series resistance to reduce in-rush current when first powering up - you'ld need to experiment to find the best value for C1 - and the best RC time constant (if R1 is also used) which enables C1 to recharge in the required inter-spark period

choice of R1 will be a compromise between limiting in-rush current & getting an acceptable C1 recharge time
 

useful points above by Kator - Luc, you're in good hands with support like you're getting on this thread!
 

hope these suggestions help

all the best
sandy

PS thanks to NerzhDishual for access to the circuit-drawing App

Hi Sandy,

I liked the recommendation of adding cap on the dc side of my bridge output to see if the voltage peaks of my charge capacitor are from there. The answer is yes! that is what was happening! by keeping a cap on the bridge output now every time the relay reconnected to charge the cap it only goes up to 168 volts. So it appears to me now! that the dc side of a bridge (with 120vac input) can swings high enough to charge a (non polarized) 6.8uf cap to 210vdc since that is the highest I have seen it charge without the inductor. When I add the inductor in series on the switching leg of the relay it can charge up to 310vdc.

I don't know if you are still interested to continue looking at this effect? please let me know if you are.

I see from your picture that my meter seems to have a 1 digit before the other 3. I just did a quick test with a 9v battery on the 2v scale and that is the digit that displays 1 when the input is (overload) higher than the scale. Also please note that when the spark event happens my meters and computer LCD flicker all the digits. I even have a LCD calculator that is off and will turn on on its own and all digits will light up. See my Krupa video for an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrPu7AI50w

Luc
 

@everyone,

I'm bringing this over from the Energetic Forum since I find it interesting. User name: Ozicell is playing around with sparks and has this effect.

Keep in mind he has a aluminum bench that is touching the ground (Earth) to some extent which could create some capacitance.

Luc

Hi Guys, I did something today which was totally and accident. I had intended doing a demo of the pulstar spark as opposed to a standard spark, so I moved a few things on my bench to one side and started the motor. What I had was a spark jumping from an unattached coil to a ball plug sitting in my open pressure chamber.

I replicated this for the first video here and then did another video showing the difference between the spark lead jumping directly to the plug as opposed to the coil and bench.

Cheers
Jeff

Coil to sparkplug jump: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDq8LzzpODU

Spark coil amplified V std spark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TJkZyaxTlo

Hi guys,

I just did that extra video for your consideration. Firstly, plug is firing with every pulse but you can't always see it because of the angle. Secondly, when I place the spark lead near the secondary from the coil, the spark jump between spark lead and coil lead goes almost invisible - very fine and faint but still jumps the gap, however, at the coil to plug end and the business end of the plug I get really fat white sparks with loud snaps. I don't know why this happens! Why does the spark lead to coil secondary lead spark become so faint when everywhere else it's strong and fat?

Anyway, thought it might be interesting to you all, enjoy!

Playing with the spark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1oTi9_4Ng

Cheers
Jeff

@everyone,

I can't resist this one and I think allcanadian would enjoy this one. He is a YouTube user called: crob227

I've see his videos before but this new one is intersting

Luc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OelWIh2lmfE
 

the news is spreading: http://www.opednews.com/articles/3/Free-Energy-and-the-Open-S-by-Steve-Windisch-ji-080821-504.html

Thanks to everyone's work, participation and support.

By working together we will find the answers.

Luc

glad the cap after the FWBR helped

if you haven't yet used a series Res (R1**) with it, you might need one if you find C1 fails after some sustained use - should only need to be a couple of hundred ohms (1W ?) - if C1 continues ok as now, don't bother with it - what value & rating cap did you use for C1?

(**  labels refer to my schematic posted earlier)

if you haven't added D2 i would strongly recommend it, if you intend to keep the relay in the circuit## - it will significantly reduce degradation of the relay switch contacts! - also adds the flyback energy from coil into  your charging cap (C2), but i don't know if you're trying to be energy-conscious with the circuit at the moment

(## noticed your request for solid state SPDT circuit & was going to simplify the Bedini one for you but i see that Groundloop has done that - so, pretty similar arrangement to my switched charge switching now - charge a cap thro' a coil & then discharge into a load)

yes, i'm happy to help 'continue looking at the effect' - if that means observing the posts & vids etc. & making suggestions if appropriate - you have other members here who have direct experience of the whole water-plasma phenomenon, and just more tech experience & knowledge in general than me, i think!

great vids you linked above (both your own & the other sources) - very interesting side-effects from your Krupa replication - would be interesting to know if the powered-off unit which showed LCD being energised would still behave the same if you could house it in some kind of faraday cage

all the best
sandy

glad the cap after the FWBR helped

Hi Sandy, well I don't know if I would say it helped, it was more like a test to see if the voltage peaks were coming from the dc side of the bridge. Maybe there would be an advantage to synchronizing the cap charging at these peaks  I don't have enough EE experience to conclude this. If anyone has an simple circuit idea that could do the synchronizing, please let me know and I will test to see if any advantages take place.
 

Quote from: nul-points on Today at 07:27:54 AM
what value & rating cap did you use for C1?

The cap is 6.8uf 250 AC, so non polarized. Have a look at the video, I got this this cap out of those old heavy wood 30" color TV unit. I don't know why but this cap takes the best peak charges and give an amazing bang for its UF size  I checked it on my capacitance meter and it is 6.9uf but gives the same kind of bang as my 22uf 350v polarized, which I also check on meter and it is actually 26uf. I don't understand that.
 

Quote from: nul-points on Today at 07:27:54 AM
if you haven't added D2 i would strongly recommend it, if you intend to keep the relay in the circuit## - it will significantly reduce degradation of the relay switch contacts! - also adds the flyback energy from coil into  your charging cap (C2), but i don't know if you're trying to be energy-conscious with the circuit at the moment

Thanks  I'll test this and let you know.

Quote from: nul-points on Today at 07:27:54 AM
very interesting side-effects from your Krupa replication - would be interesting to know if the powered-off unit which showed LCD being energised would still behave the same if you could house it in some kind of faraday cage

I did try a Faraday cage over the complete circuit and it did not change much. The effect are in all the wires.

Thanks for your help, sharing and keeping an eye on this topic.

Luc

"It would helpful if you could make a simple hand-drawing of the complete circuit so that we are not left speculating on this effect. It is important to knwo the exact figures of your leading coil ( L in Henry ), the max switch-amperage and volatage of the relais, values of the HV-Diodes and inductance of the primary ingnition-coil.

Also any digital-meter fails in showing the exact values while measuring pulse-modes. Although I accept your reluctance to get a bit more "scientific" I can assure you that it is very important to learn the minimum of methods known in electronics. I myself have lost a lage amount of time in "barking at the wrong tree" - so to say.

I agree on what nul-point was saying about your observation.

Input current is measured best be detecting the voltage-drop across a low-value resistor ( 1 Ohm, 25 Watt ) either with a true RMS meter in AC-mode before the rectifier or in DC-mode after the rectifier.

The link fo yours above does not work today, its says the server lead the enquiery around somewhere so it can never be answered

Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.

Kator"
 

Hi Kator,

I made a hand drawn circuit. If you or anyone else can make a clean one that would be great since I can include it at my first page as an update.

The Full Wave Bridge Rectifier is a standard off the self item 400v  5 amps or more if you wish.

The Air Core Charge Inductor I made is from a primary of a MOT that I cut out and recoiled it. The Inductor center opening is 38mm. The O.D. is 60mm and the width is 40mm. From what I can tell the Mag Wire is about 14 Gauge. The coils DC resistance is 0.4 Ohms and measures 2.23mH on my inductance meter.

The Relay is an Automotive 12vdc relay rated 40A/30A which is SPDT . I did not show the relay coil in the diagram since the black marker I was using is too large to show details. The relays rest position is on the bridge to cap. I use a 12vdc battery to activate the relay coil to discharge the cap to the coil and diode string.

The Capacitor is 6.8uf 250 AC (non polarized). I go this this cap out an old heavy wood 30" color TV unit. I don't know why but this cap takes the best peak charges give an amazing bang for its UF size   My capacitance meter says it is 6.9uf but gives the same kind of bang as my 22uf 350v polarized, which I also check on meter and it is actually 26uf. I don't understand that.

The Coil is an Automotive Coil made by Accel part on. 8140C. The Primary DC resistance is 1.3 Ohms and measures 6.46mH on inductance meter. Secondary DC resistance is 9.10 K Ohms and I cannot measure H on my meter.

The Diodes are a string of 1N5408 in series and are rated at 1000 volts at 3A each.

The Spark Plug used for spark gap is from a 3HP gas lawn mower engine that will be used for testing the circuit. Modifications to the plug are: I cut off the J electrode and also filed down the center electrode so both are at same level. With this mod. the Plug now has a 3mm gap. The plugs internal resistor has been removed and replaced with 3 pcs. of correct length 14 gauge solid copper wire to complete the contact.

I hope this is enough details for anyone to replicate.

Luc

Do you think the MSD coil I chose will give good results?

Does Mr. Krupa know about this simple circuit wet?

Thanks for sharing

Luc"
 

We have used the MSD Blaster 2 and Blaster 3 on his plugs and they both work well, with the enhanced spark setup and without. Tests were run in the 20Hz to 300Hz range fired by a large Mosfet with snubbers on the output.

Voltages from 10 to 150 volts were used and his plug seems to produce a more pronounced plasma compared to regular plugs. I have used up to 220uF flash caps but blew mosfets out under the larger capacitive discharges. I am switching to an SCR driven system like Lee's (AKA SMW1989A) for more robustness.

We have also exploded water using the genuine Firestorm and the other brands and they work similar although the Firestorm explodes the water under much less energy than the others.

We used Bosch platinum and many of the champion line and they just don't create the same plasma effect under the same energy levels. Almost appears to the eye that the Firestorm plugs create a ball of plasma inside the cage and you get flashes of flame? extending outside the cage as well. Similar to what you see in his earlier videos. Most of those tests were on run under 800mJ energy levels after the mosfets blew. We used the MSD ignition driver (Digital-6 Plus) which is half the energy rating we need. We have Crane cams drivers coming which are capable of 1.2 Joules. We will use those as a backup to the SCR driven and variac fed power supply we are building.

Once I have the large SCR bench test system up I will tell you of the results from the 2 to 6 joule range firing. Hopefully we can run constantly and really get some good test data from it. I'm not sure if Krupa's investor will allow us to post videos etc, but we will try to give basic data from the tests. The plugs should be in manufacturing shortly, although not any of the companies in the US or Bosch etc want to manufacture them for us because they last too long and they would not make any money from them (according to Bosch and others). Thankfully we have other options for production.
UncleFester

It would helpful if you could make a simple hand-drawing of the complete circuit so that we are not left speculating on this effect. It is important to knwo the exact figures of your leading coil ( L in Henry ), the max switch-amperage and volatage of the relais, values of the HV-Diodes and inductance of the primary ingnition-coil.

Also any digital-meter fails in showing the exact values while measuring pulse-modes. Although I accept your reluctance to get a bit more "scientific" I can assure you that it is very important to learn the minimum of methods known in electronics. I myself have lost a lage amount of time in "barking at the wrong tree" - so to say.

I agree on what nul-point was saying about your observation.

Input current is measured best be detecting the voltage-drop across a low-value resistor ( 1 Ohm, 25 Watt ) either with a true RMS meter in AC-mode before the rectifier or in DC-mode after the rectifier.

The link fo yours above does not work today, its says the server lead the enquiery around somewhere so it can never be answered

Anyway , first measure-methods have to be revised and a drawing would be helpful, so we can duplicate exactly.

Kator
 

Hi Kator,

I made a hand drawn circuit. If you or anyone else can make a clean one that would be great since I can include it at my first page as an update.

The Full Wave Bridge Rectifier is a standard off the self item 400v  5 amps or more if you wish.

The Air Core Charge Inductor I made is from a primary of a MOT that I cut out and recoiled it. The Inductor center opening is 38mm. The O.D. is 60mm and the width is 40mm. From what I can tell the Mag Wire is about 14 Gauge. The coils DC resistance is 0.4 Ohms and measures 2.23mH on my inductance meter.

The Relay is an Automotive 12vdc relay rated 40A/30A which is SPDT . I did not show the relay coil in the diagram since the black marker I was using is too large to show details. The relays rest position is on the bridge to cap. I use a 12vdc battery to activate the relay coil to discharge the cap to the coil and diode string.

The Capacitor is 6.8uf 250 AC (non polarized). I go this this cap out an old heavy wood 30" color TV unit. I don't know why but this cap takes the best peak charges and gives an amazing bang for its uF size   My capacitance meter says it is 6.9uf but gives the same kind of bang as my 22uf 350v polarized, which I also check on meter and it is actually 26uf. I don't understand that.

The Coil is an Automotive Coil made by Accel part on. 8140C. The Primary DC resistance is 1.3 Ohms and measures 6.46mH on inductance meter. Secondary DC resistance is 9.10 K Ohms and I cannot measure H on my meter.

The Diodes are a string of 1N5408 in series and are rated at 1000 volts at 3A each.

The Spark Plug used for spark gap is from a 3HP gas lawn mower engine that will be used for testing the circuit. Modifications to the plug are: I cut off the J electrode and also filed down the center electrode so both are at same level. With this mod. the Plug now has a 3mm gap. The plugs internal resistor has been removed and replaced with 3 pcs. of correct length 14 gauge solid copper wire to complete the contact.

I hope this is enough details for anyone to replicate.

Luc

 

I was wondering if there is any steam pressure develloped in the proces?
If so then maybe it is possible to directly drive turbines or the like or something in the o'l steam engine fashion at a low cost since we do not need to actually boil the water first?

I will catch you guys up on the experiments soon.
Marco.
 

Hi Marco,

nice to see you at this topic. The interesting thing about this effect is it stays cool, so steam is not apparent. I have sometimes seen a very small amount when using larger capacitors but not enough to make a turbine work on that for the energy in. The sound is much more, so If you had a resonator to amplify that and convert it to mechanical movement that would be worth looking into.

@starcruiser, thanks for looking at this topic and sharing  Please read the above and see if anything comes to mind. Maybe Keely could of done something with this. Where is Hans

Luc

i'm not sure that you've given me the value for C1 (the cap immediately following the bridge)?  you mention about the 6.8uF giving a louder bang, so i guess you're actually talking about C2

the cap C1, following the bridge gets charged to the peak voltage of the rectified AC anyway, and with suitable value for the cap should remain there, approx

it will have some ripple on the voltage each time the relay (or SS switch) charges C2 - but as long as C1 is sufficiently higher-valued than C2 then C1 won't lose too much voltage each time C2 gets charged (so, you could try, say, around 100uF for C1)

really no need to synchronize cap charging to the rectified AC waveform - un-necessary complexity!

it's possible that the difference in bang-per-uF between your 6.8uF & 22uF caps could be due to different internal series resistance  (ESR) in the two caps (which might be greater in the polarised electrolytic than in the non-polarised cap - think of it as leaving some resistance in the spark plug, say)

if you stay with the relay as a switch, i'd recommend using D2 anyway, to help prolong its switch contact life - even if it doesn't show any benefit from extra flyback energy

thanks for the info about the LCDs/Faraday cage - was interested to see if there was a direct influence on the display crystal medium - but it sounds like its more an RF effect if it relies on the presence of the wires of the affected device - antenna action

on the general subject of water-plasma explosive force - have you ever seen any info about longitudinal force caused by current flow?

doesn't seem to be that widely known in conventional electro-physics, but wire can be made to disintegrate energetically under high current loads - it breaks into segments lengthways - apparently rail-gun experiments have to take this into account otherwise the rails get buckled outwards by the current across the sled/axles between the rails

so - i guess there is an equivalent lengthways force in ANY conductor (plasma/water/copper, etc) - though it might be of interest

[late edit:  ...just seen you've got your switch after the coil - can i suggest you try placing the coils AFTER the relay switch (as in my schematic, i think) & using D2 positioned & polarised as shown - you certainly won't get any flyback energy from the coil if it's separated from C2 by the switch - other than by sparking across your relay switch - not good!]

cordialement
sandy

Hi Kator,

I made a hand drawn circuit. If you or anyone else can make a clean one that would be great since I can include it at my first page as an update,
Updated, user name: Aka has cleaned the circuit (now below) Thanks Aka

The Full Wave Bridge Rectifier is a standard off the self item 400v  5 amps or more if you wish.

The Air Core Charge Inductor I made is from a primary of a MOT that I cut out and recoiled it. The Inductor center opening is 38mm. The O.D. is 60mm and the width is 40mm. From what I can tell the Mag Wire is about 14 Gauge. The coils DC resistance is 0.4 Ohms and measures 2.23mH on my inductance meter.

The Relay is an Automotive 12vdc relay rated 40A/30A which is SPDT . I did not show the relay coil in the diagram since the black marker I was using is too large to show details. The relays rest position is on the bridge to cap. I use a 12vdc battery to activate the relay coil to discharge the cap to the coil and diode string.

The Capacitor is 6.8uf 250 AC (non polarized). I go this this cap out an old heavy wood 30" color TV unit. I don't know why but this cap takes the best peak charges and gives an amazing bang for its uF size   My capacitance meter says it is 6.9uf but gives the same kind of bang as my 22uf 350v polarized, which I also check on meter and it is actually 26uf. I don't understand that.

The Coil is an Automotive Coil made by Accel part on. 8140C. The Primary DC resistance is 1.3 Ohms and measures 6.46mH on inductance meter. Secondary DC resistance is 9.10 K Ohms and I cannot measure H on my meter.

The Diodes are a string of 6 of 1N5408 in series and are rated at 1000 volts at 3A each.

The Spark Plug used for spark gap is from a 3HP gas lawn mower engine that will be used for testing the circuit. Modifications to the plug are: I cut off the J electrode and also filed down the center electrode so both are at same level. With this mod. the Plug now has a 3mm gap. The plugs internal resistor has been removed and replaced with 3 pcs. of correct length 14 gauge solid copper wire to complete the contact.

I hope this is enough details for anyone to replicate.

Luc

hi Luc

...apologies - when i posted my schematic yesterday (before your existing circuit was posted just above), i imagined that you were charging your 6u8F cap with the relay, then switching that cap into the auto-coil with a separate switch

as you're using a SPDT to do all the switching (and now i see why your new thread today is asking for a SS SPDT!) my schematic doesn't match your circuit arrangement - your auto-coil would prevent the 6u8F from charging in my schematic, if there's no second switch

so - if you keep to one SPDT switch (either mechanical or SS) your bridge to cap inductor has to be on the bridge side of the switch as you have it now and any protection diode would have to be in parallel with the inductor (+ve towards bridge) to help preserve the relay switch contacts - no reclaim of flyback energy with this arrangement

if you do decide to use Tr or MOSFET switching then you don't need to have this SPDT arrangement - you can have one switch between bridge & inductor - and the other switch between 6u8F cap & auto-coil

so then you get to add D2, as in my schematic, before the inductor to reclaim flyback energy

all the best
sandy

Luc

Added: I have updated the 1st post page with the new Drawing Aka has provided and also posted the component description.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg108283.html#msg108283

...apologies - when i posted my schematic yesterday (before your existing circuit was posted just above), i imagined that you were charging your 6u8F cap with the relay, then switching that cap into the auto-coil with a separate switch

as you're using a SPDT to do all the switching (and now i see why your new thread today is asking for a SS SPDT!) my schematic doesn't match your circuit arrangement - your auto-coil would prevent the 6u8F from charging in my schematic, if there's no second switch

so - if you keep to one SPDT switch (either mechanical or SS) your bridge to cap inductor has to be on the bridge side of the switch as you have it now and any protection diode would have to be in parallel with the inductor (+ve towards bridge) to help preserve the relay switch contacts - no reclaim of flyback energy with this arrangement

if you do decide to use Tr or MOSFET switching then you don't need to have this SPDT arrangement - you can have one switch between bridge & inductor - and the other switch between 6u8F cap & auto-coil

so then you get to add D2, as in my schematic, before the inductor to reclaim flyback energy

all the best
sandy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
 

Hi Sandy, now  I understand the communication differences  I am not stuck to the SPDT switch circuit. I'll try anything that my simple electronics understanding can handle

Did you see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7QmzePtUeU
It is a solid state replication with scope shots made by user smw1998a of the Energetic Forum topic: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2242-water-sparkplug.html

Luc

thanks for the heads up on those vids - very interesting info from the scope trace of the capacitor
 

from this - and the vid of the spark with/without HV diodes & then also with/without water it looks to me at the moment like the increased strength of the spark is related mainly to the decrease in discharge time

scope trace on the cap doesn't show any evidence of extra energy introduced by diodes or water - just reduced discharge time

no scope traces available from auto-coil/spark gap so far - it's possible there could still be extra anomalous energy shown - but the decrease in discharge time is quite dramatic
 

so - i would guess that we're seeing something like Tesla observed in his energetic discharges: a strong 'radiant' event magnified by reducing the spark discharge time - same Energy in less Time = higher Power

at a guess, i would say it's possible that the high-voltage diode(s) intantaneously pre-biases the spark-gap from the voltage at top of the auto-coil primary, whilst the current builds up in the auto-coil primary (a relatively 'slow' operation, electrically speaking)

this maybe conditions the air in the gap to make it more susceptible to the discharge (as happens in a cloud-to-ground lightning strike) - lowering the air-path impedance somewhat?

then when the auto-coil transformer action has built up in the secondary, the air-gap provides a better conductance - higher current - faster discharge - the diodes need to be HV because there is now a much higher reverse voltage between top of secondary & top of primary

any other means of lowering that discharge path impedance (during the strike) is only going to increase the current / discharge rate - could water vapour be providing that action?

seems possible that the fine water mist droplets act as some kind of 'stepping stone' to divide the main spark gaps into lots of shorter spark gaps - water droplets now in a pre-biased polarised field?

if you have too much water then the system discharges through a continous water path directly & more 'gently' - you don't get the air rupture & breakdown effect of a spark gap - but the finer 'droplet - gap - droplet - gap' arrangement can act like a trigger condition for a higher power discharge - almost like a chain-reaction?

powerful enough now to start doing funky things with the composition of the water in the droplets, which now form part of the current path?  maybe

comments, anyone?

all the best
sandy

PS i'll try & get back to you later about separating the switching

Durability tested your simple circuit design with the spark plug. I have it automatically run with a continuous synchronous water atomizing spray on it. It works well until about an hour later when the switching relay started to give way. Think should have an electronic switching circuit to take over this.

Regards

unity2zero

Since you are playing with high voltage here is a high voltage capacitor test video I just uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6oSekQykiw

Keep us updated  and thanks for sharing

Luc

the link below is a new uploaded video to inform all who maybe interested of the engine project I'm working on at this time.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAyW21_L0is

Luc

I think this is a great occasion to share this since the release of the water gasoline engine project video.

Here is a video done by YouTube user: "dreamyear"  demonstrating a 50/50 water gasoline mix burning very well and for a longer time than just gasoline alone.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP6kLaVyDBY

Luc

Here is a proposed very simple circuit for testing on your system.

The circuit works like this:
The 120 VAC is rectifyed through a diode bridge resulting in only positive pulses after the
bridge. The capacitor will charge up and when the capacitor voltage reach approx. 120 VDC
the Neon bulb will light sending a small current to the SCR trigger. The SCR will then dump
the capacitor charge into the ignition coil. The BY diode is there for back emf protection. The
5 watt resistor is a current limiter so that the SCR will survive.

Groundloop.
Luc,

hi Luc

[Edit: i said i'd get back to you with an update on the SS mods you were looking to replace the relay with in your existing circuit - as i'm about to post this i see Groundloop has just posted an SCR-based schematic, so my suggestions may be redundant now but i'll post anyway in case you also decide to try your existing circuit with SS mods at any time]

i've updated my previous schematic to show how the solid state SPDT switch arrangement which Groundloop adapted for you
    (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5438.msg122802.html#msg122802)
in your SS SPDT thread could be modified to split the switch into two and move your inductor between them

this would then enable you to use D2 to reclaim the flyback energy from the inductor into your 6u8F capacitor (C2) to boost the discharge as i was suggesting earlier

i've left the suggested bridge cap (C1) in place - this would give you maximum input charge to the 6u8F every strike

if you use R1 to protect C1 from damage due to in-rush current, try with 220R initially & vary C1 to the minimum capacitor value which still maximises charge volts on your 6u8F at your required strike rate

D3 is suggested to provide some protection to MOSFET Q2 from any flyback voltage from primary of T1 - if there's no significant flyback there, remove D3

(D2, D3 can be 1N400x type)

the source circuit which Groundloop adapted for you didn't seem to have any protection against overlap of switching voltages (to ensure that both outputs are not 'on' at same time) - might not be an issue depending on the actual switching signal circuit used, but suggest you check Q1 & Q2 gate drive signals on 2 channel scope (with no AC to Bridge), before allowing the FETs to switch real charge from bridge to transformer!

i think you could test this circuit arrangement below with a DPDT relay (as long as you've got 'break-before-make' contacts!) in place of the MOSFETS - in which case certainly include D3 (in addition to D2) to prolong relay switch contacts

all the best
sandy

Luc,

Attached is the same simple circuit with external trigger input.
Note: Adjust the SCR trigger voltage BEFORE switching on circuit.
This circuit can be used with external trigger in an engine enviroment.

Groundloop.

thank you for all the great work you have done   I can see that this is a very simple circuit which those with no or little EE will be able to build, including me

Excellent work   Thanks for sharing.

I will also share your circuit at the Energetic Forum...I hope that is okay with you?

Luc

thank you for taking all this extra time to help the project!... you guys are God sends. Many have been asking me for a SS switching and I think now we have some good and simple stuff to share.

I will also share this with the Energetic Forum, I hope that is fine with you Sandy?

Once again, thanks and God Bless

Luc

you're welcome - no problem about sharing those suggestions ...don't forget they're just extending the SS SPDT circuit Groundloop adapted for you, so the EF members will need that too, for the MOSFET gate switching

  (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5438.msg122802.html#msg122802)

looking forward to seeing how the water-plasma ideas develop

all the best
sandy

you're welcome - no problem about sharing those suggestions ...don't forget they're just extending the SS SPDT circuit Groundloop adapted for you, so the EF members will need that too, for the MOSFET gate switching

  (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5438.msg122802.html#msg122802)

looking forward to seeing how the water-plasma ideas develop

all the best
sandy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
 

Hi Sandy, thanks for making it clear for the MOSFET switching.

Since you mention switching! I have a question about it. Do you think inductor (L1) would have a hot spot (power efficiency) if we had the ability to adjusted the duty cycle of Q1?  if so, do you think that same duty cycle would work on the discharge of Q2 ?  if not. then two 555 circuits would be needed?  if so, then is there a way (circuit) to keep them from not overlapping?

Sorry for all the chain questions.

Luc

for those moving towards a blended fuel mix/gas vaporization/hho for the next step in getting a small engine to run,
I decided to start up a new thread to explore/brainstorm the concept of emulsifying Brown's gas in a liquid.

There's a Japanese/Korean company touting the breakthrough and boasting what they're calling em-fuel... and
it sounds like they've managed to trap and stabilize HHO into microbubbles within a liquid... in their case, kerosene/diesel and
are running this mix with NO modifications to furnaces and engines. Their using a 50/50 mix.

I wonder how this emulsion would respond to a plasma spark? Since we are exploding H20 could we emulsify a 90/10 mix and combust with plasma?
Could we emulsify HHO into water only?  Could we emulsify into gasoline?  They're doing it with something their calling a "nanomizer" and trapping
Hydrogen and Oxygen separately into bubbles less than a tenth micron in size..... and the gas WON'T come out of solution once trapped.... even under a centerfuge!

Please feel free to take a look ... it's been bugging me for days!!!  I think this could help ALL water projects if we figure this out and replicate.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5450.msg123278/topicseen.html#msg123278

Sorry if this seems off topic    but i see relevance to many efforts finding a home here on this thread.... if you want to chat or input to this topic please bring it
over to the new thread..thanks,
randy

This is why I have confidence with the partial GEET system I'm building and proposing.

Here is part of a reply I posted at the Energetic Forum:

The reason I don't want to use the carburetor (other than just the throttle plate) for fuel control is they don't vaporize fuel. My belief is, if you want optimal ignition (close to 100% burn) with minimal energy to ignite it (plasma spark) I think having gases in a vapor state will burn with less energy than a gas in liquid state. I could be wrong since I'm also not a chemist. The system I propose will use the energy normally wasted (exhaust) to prepare the input fuel (water & gas) in many ways. One is, if we are imputing water vapor then we are also outputting water vapor in the exhaust. So by using the exhaust we are recollecting the water, using the heat to heat the water for it to turn to vapor, using the the exhaust air to vigorously mix the water and fuel together with the bubbles, using the Stainless pot scrubbers to brake the bubbles over their large surface area which will turn liquid to vapor very easily and ready for intake. I love this system since it is what kind of goes on in Nature!...Water (fuel), Sun (exhaust heat), Earth (scrubber surface), Lightning, (plasma spark) and Rain (collecting exhaust output)

I think that when we get closer to mimicking Nature in our inventions, the closer we will be to free energy.

Luc

...replying about switching issues related to your inductor between bridge & 6u8F cap:

from my experiments with similar circuit (pulse charge cap via inductor then separate discharge from cap through following load) i found there is a very small range of acceptable 'charge' times for a particular coil at a required voltage whilst the 'discharge' time from the cap could be varied quite significantly over a wide range
 

the issue for the inductor seems to be this: if the 'charge' pulse width is too short for a particular inductor & voltage then the input energy is still being used to setup the inductor's magnetic field and it doesn't transfer the maximum possible voltage to the cap

on the other hand, if the 'charge' pulse is too long then there is unecessary 'waste' of energy when maximum voltage has been reached across the cap and there is I-squared-R loss in the copper of the inductor winding
 

so for my inductor/voltage parameters (approx 2R of 0.45mm magnet wire, random-wound on 12mm x 20mm approx ferrite / 8V) the 'sweet spot' charge time is around 180uS - less than this & my cap doesn't charge to 8V - more than this i start losing efficiency - and with a recorded efficiency of just 120% i certainly don't want to lose any of that precious extra 20%!!

my approach is to vary the PWM by separately varying the 'charge' time with one control and the 'discharge' time with a second control - that way i can keep the inductor switching at optimal 'sweet spot' and effectively vary the frequency of operation by varying the 'discharge' time
 

i think there is one more important timing issue for your circuit than for mine, however - and it is because the load on your switched cap is another 'inductance' - the auto-coil

i think that you will find there is also an issue of field setup time for the auto-coil Xfr primary as with your bridge-to-cap inductor: there is likely a similar 'sweet spot' setup time - only in this case the field setup time will relate to the amount of charge (hence energy) transferred from the switched cap into the primary

in your case you've found that using your 6u8F cap gives you optimum results - smaller cap values (or higher cap value with more ESR loss) doesn't enable the primary to setup up so much input field (hence secondary output is smaller)

larger switched cap values take longer to charge to the same voltage & use more energy - not all of which perhaps gets transferred to the secondary & therefore the spark gap

we've seen from the video link you shared (user swbNN?) the scope trace on the switched cap input to the auto-coil showed that using HV diodes from top of primary to top of secondary and water spray into spark gap significantly reduces discharge time into the spark gap and therefore increases the spark Power for the same energy

i would say then that with a given switched cap value getting charged to a maximum input voltage from the AC bridge/coil combo then there will be a 'sweet spot' minimum discharge period into the auto-coil - too short & the spark energy will be reduced - any longer than this will just become an inter-spark delay (which will become part of the ICE firing cycle anyway, i guess?)

in summary: for a given inductor / switched cap / auto-coil arrangement: adjust initial 'charge' time to just enough to get max charge voltage, no longer - then adjust 'discharge' time to just get max spark power, no longer - then adjust remaining inter-spark time to get required frequency of spark

hope this helps

all the best
sandy

this is great help and confirms what I thought would happen. Each step and components of the circuit will needs to be tuned before one can achieve a high level of efficiency.

I am not completely clear on this " (approx 2R of 0.45mm magnet wire, random-wound on 12mm x 20mm approx ferrite / 8V) "

What does 2R stand for in layman terms?

you say the 0.45mm mag wire is random-wound!... does that mean it is not nicely wound next to each wire row by row like a coil?  if so, it is somewhat loose and just quickly wound like if you would wind twine on a stick?  if so, have found this to give a better effect (efficiency)?

and last, what is / 8V stand for in layman terms?

I really appreciate all the information and circuit diagrams you have shared in this topic Sandy. And I am sure many are in the background just reading and learning even though they don't post. I know I mostly did that when I first came to this Forum some years ago.

All this to say that your contribution is more then we can realize.

Thank you for your great service to humanity.

Luc
 

thanks for the kind words - i'm glad to help if i can

not really sure that i have much to offer, but as the other guys pointed out to you & me earlier there is a close similarity in this particular part of your switching circuit between our two projects (although they're being used in very different applications)

...sorry for the confusion over some of those circuit details above

i used 2R to indicate 2 ohms (i don't have the ohms symbol)

yes, the coil wind is exactly as you describe - "not nicely wound next to each wire row by row like a coil  ...somewhat loose and just quickly wound like if you would wind twine on a stick"

it's not mechanically loose tho' because i tape between each layer (about 4 or 5 turns per layer - the ferrite is only 20mm long approx) so i get a short fat coil

i've tried various hand-wound coils and the most important factor - for my test - is that the copper resistance stays low (just a few ohms) - i used random-wind method just to reduce the coil capacitance - i only want to store mag-field energy in the coil which i can then reclaim with the flyback diode (D2)

i haven't done any tests yet to compare the efficiency of the random-wound coil with my tight-wound coils - they seem mostly equivalent so it hasn't been an issue so far

however, the coil i need is small compared to the one you're using - so it may make a much bigger difference in your application if the coils is tight-wound or random-wound

it's the sort of thing you can test after optimising the rest of the circuit operation - then you can go back & just change that one thing and see if your 'optimal' results get worse or improve
 

the example info inside the brackets relates to the parameters i mentioned outside the brackets: "my inductor/voltage parameters" - so the / 8V just gives the "voltage" part of that pair of parameters (no division involved)
 
i mentioned the voltage in my circuit example because my application doesn't use the high voltages that the water-plasma experiment needs and so my particular 'charge' time should be seen as relevant only to my low-voltage circuit - your optimal time may turn out to be very different due to either difference in inductance or difference in voltage levels

thanks for the heads-up on the confusion over my info - hope this makes it easier to see what i was trying to say

all the best
sandy

I finally have reached page 21 of this thread, still alot to read LOL.

Callanan at post 74 showed it > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OTCqws_hsc

This is the stage I want to get to before replacing the relay with MOSFETs.

Im not sure if its a problem with my circuit, or maybe this just does not work unless its tried with compress air/water like inside the engine. If this is the case then Ill go ahead and get myself a mower/RC engine to play with

since there is supposedly a longitudinal force in the direction of high-current flow, has anyone with a 'nail-type' spark gap seen any evidence of the gap electrodes being forced apart?

thanks
sandy

today I see many of you sharing very similar results. You are observing an explosion event when water is added but cannot seem to be able to measure an explosive pressure.

We are not wet understanding why this is since since most of us don't have a million dollar lab to test with. We know the spark process is very quick and some are quite convinced that as quickly as it explodes it will also implode.

It has also been observed that the water and spark event stays cold. So if we know water will expand with heat and the process stays cold we could conclude that there would be no expansion results.

What we need to do is change our thinking. We all want a quick fix for our combustion engines and are too focus on just that. I can tell you that combustion engines are killing our World and you know that. So if we know that, then why not try and think of other ways to use this effect? I'm not saying that I have the answers because I don't. All what I do is share what I find and ask you do the same. By doing this maybe someone could think or accidentally hit on a great use for this effect.

I have proposed and I am building at this time (well not right now since I'm writing this message, right!) a half GEET plasma combustion engine with great hope that by emulsifying the water with some fuel and the plasma spark should give a very good results in a combustion engine.

How many of you have submitted a proposal to use this effect since you have built the circuit and had time to observe the effect???...How many of you have looked at goldenequity new topic on emulsifying water and fuel???... How many of you have seen this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI54ZQqw5Ps&feature=related  ?...How many of you have read this post: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg123291.html#msg123291 ?...How many of you understand understand what the hell Luc is talking about?... How many of you want to cut home heating and car fuel consumption by 50% or more?

So lets use what we have (plasma spark) and expand with what is proposed! or propose your own ideas.

To conclude there is no expansion therefore an ICE won't work and move on to another topic is a lazy attitude and will bring you no fruit.

A wise man once told me....If you are looking for water and start digging a well and after some time you find no water and decide to start digging at another place and so on, how can you expect to find water? ...It is only when you have steady faith and stick to the task that you will reach the water.

Understand our Nature and you will reap its benefits.

I will be building the engine for the next 3 days and not moderating the tread.

Luc